做 Programmer 入行應有的條件。

rt3

Programmer in HK is not a good job. Long working hours, and few promotion. Competing with India and PRC outsourcing.

rockysh

programmer is already the entry level of IT.  then all your criteria mentioned are true.  However, with the relocation of IT dept to other countries like PRC and India, it is more and more difficult to earn a good living of IT life in HK, unless go to government or public utilities

mtlrichter

容许我也和大家分享我在programming 这行业的经历罢。

programmer, program 甚么很多时都不是自己决定。

毕业后乱打乱撞进入一间商业软件发展公司，那是一间有廿卅年历史的软件公司(用户遍及欧美亚)，但只有两大件产品(同样有二三十年历史)。一件是有关零售业务，一件是有关生产管理，主要对象是和服饰有关的行业。当然也曾见修改后的版本用于城市管理、音响生产甚至被殡仪业。

想起来，其实我们这些 programmer 和技工没有太大分别，都是把守著最后一道关，也是最忙碌的一班，限时限刻完成任务。错!镬全归我们身上，当然不是甚么错，一般都是入数到不应该入的地方而已 。所以很多时半夜三更还在火线上博杀，真是有得振无得训。其他人吗!快活过神仙，吃喝玩乐都有人包起，至少到任务完成之前都可快快活活过日子。

任务完成庆功吗，接到生意那位最出风头...我们这些三郎或三娘，顶多组长说一两句，我们做得好，今天的成绩大家功不可“没”!明天下午一齐食晏(注意，不是请你食晏，只是一齐食咋)

当然 programmer在公司还是受人尊重，上岗时身光颈靓，衣服光鲜，收入都算得上吾错。但问题是，读同样的书，同一时间入职，只是分配到不同岗位，同人吾同命，有些人印印脚又一日，我们则无时无刻担心这担心那。无法啦唯有叹“命”。

jayzhou_2046

回應 alanwong #1 的帖子

１。人要細心。
      相信此項對於其他行業是必須的.
２。對外客戶能力要強。
      如果須要提供客戶支援，此項會相當有幫助．但可謂”對外客戶能力強"?
      閣下除了技術知識外，語言能力包括外語可能有相當程度的幫忙．
３。要估客戶要求什麼，因為客戶佢講的野未必一定對。
　　這不是，也不應該是programmer的工作範圍．Requirement analysis應該由Project Manager,
      System Analyst或Business Analyst執行．
４。要願意不斷不斷學市場不同行業的知識。
      這也不一定需要．因programmer好可能只是執行System Analyst及／或Project Manager
      的設計．如果有規模的公司，可能還設有business analyst, 所以作為剛入行programmer，
　　此項並沒有太大需要，但對於將來升遷到System Analyst或Project Manager有莫大幫助．
５。不斷進修，不好諗住一套軟件寫足一世，否則好易比人 OUT 。
      相信此項對於其他行業也是必須的．
６。不好諗會發達，Programmer 香港發不到達，只有辛苦。
      相信此項對於其他行業也是相類似的．
７。四十歲先(前)要走人，否則入硬青山。
      人生大起大趺，十常八九．懷才不遇亦很常見．如果四十歲前都要做programmer,
      相信小弟入咗好幾百次了．凡事能隨遇而安，是生活的必要條件．

namyrd

programmer係一門青春飯,後生時先比較容易食,因為後生時學新野會易D,但到左中年後就.......

ha2418

絕對同意

jayzhou_2046

回應 namyrd #27 的帖子

唉! 咪係囉!

小弟人到老年,
寫嚟寫去都係.Net, J2EE, iOS, Android, Window Phone果啲舊嘢!
同埋做吓requirement analysis, system analysis, project management嗰啲咁嘢.

閒時仲要教啲後生, 要做呢樣, 唔好做嗰樣! 真係唔死冇用!

睇書又慢, 一日先睇嗰百零二百頁書. 人老咗就真係冇Q用.
得閒睇吓心戰, 咪仲有益有建設性!

唉! 都係做啲轉行或退休算! 一唔係等死都得!

馬後砲

jayzhou_2046 發表於 2012-5-28 10:52
回應 namyrd #27 的帖子

唉! 咪係囉!

冇咁嚴重嘛!

jayzhou_2046

未算!
人老咗競爭力, 真係好唔Q掂!

有個哥仔將"Type mismatch"寫成"Mistach".
一時有話樣樣識, 一時又話未做過;
一時有話做過, 但唔識!

最正係連之前做過嗰間嘢,
喺邊同叫咩名都講唔出.

咁叻仔, 咪同我咁高咁大.
老細仲成日話佢叻仔, 係天才添.

所以"做Programmer入行應有的條件"係運氣, 運氣同運氣.
同埋唔好似我呢種死老坑咁老,
聞見棺材香,
咁先得人鍾意,
咁先大有前途.

吊伯特

舊 post 回塘

主要睇想走咩路同做咩公司

香港一般中小企, 資源極少, 講求快起貨求其出到街多於一切, 對技術水平要求不高 (interview 時就高, 但真做就出到街就算). 在呢類公司, 應有條件在技術方面係識 syntax 識 call library 最重要, 其餘都是技術以外的條件, 例如識同老細打好關係, 識吹水

如果真係有熱誠而又真係搵到有技術發揮的地方 (在香港實在極少), 入行應有的條件是學好基本功, 最最最基本是學好 data structure, algorithm, 以至 design pattern, 唔係要好似考試咁背 d 野點寫, 而係要知道有咩基本特性, 在咩情況下應該用咩. 而家好多新人覺得電腦咁 Q 快, 仲駛唔駛識 low level 野. 但好多時, 唔駛真係要 real-time system 先至要睇 efficiency. 有時一段普通 code 行零點一秒, 做 testing 時唔會覺得有乜野, 但如果 production 係要一次過行一萬次, 就等畀人小

只不過, 在現實世界, 前者多機會過後者好多. 至少香港係咁

馬後砲

吊伯特 發表於 2012-6-7 23:57
舊 post 回塘

主要睇想走咩路同做咩公司

絕對認同有關code efficiency那part.

記得早年的機慢，memory少，harddisk capacity細，
嗰陣寫得好唔好到test run就即知。

jayzhou_2046

上邊提到嗰位"天才",
一炮累公司唔見廿幾三十個;
而且幾乎掂邊樣爛邊樣;
code efficiency, data structure, algorithm, design pattern佢Q知;
成日係都喺網度download啲"hello world",
compile到, run到,
又同人講識呢樣識嗰樣,
但佢連HTML 點摭咗個password都未搞得掂;
一唔係學咩到話上youtube睇片...

吹水仲正, 近乎冇人可以聽得明佢講明,
包括老細;
monthly講成money,
calendar講成cylinder;
人哋同佢講嘢, 佢又好似一嚿雲咁.

但你咪理, 老細唔須要話你知點解佢鍾意佢.
愛係好奇妙!

(但係兩個都係麻甩佬! 唔同中途轉機?!)

你話佢似"金剛"咁我冇說話講.
但係阿"天才"靚仔到...
天靈蓋中咗火雲掌,
雙眼俾洛奇打到兵分兩路,
三义神經線受損,
掤牙突變到好似Simpson咁款,
個肚有咗六個月身幾,
日日on9三十六小時...(下刪萬九幾字)

我又確係唔敢肯定,
唔知有冇人肯同佢中途轉機啦?!

咁你話, 關所謂軟硬實力咩嘢事呢?

假波男

jayzhou_2046 發表於 2012-6-8 10:07
你話佢似"金剛"咁我冇說話講.
但係阿"天才"靚仔到...
天靈蓋中咗火雲掌,
雙眼俾洛奇打到兵分兩路,
三义神經線受損,
掤牙突變到好似Simpson咁款,
個肚有咗六個月身幾,
日日on9三十六小時...

笑到我肚痛!

講緊佢?

jayzhou_2046

回應 假波男 #35 的帖子

呢個Simpsons都靚仔過佢呀...陰X公!

但你咪理.
佢話有女今年嫁佢!

吊伯特

jayzhou_2046 發表於 2012-6-8 10:07
上邊提到嗰位"天才",
一炮累公司唔見廿幾三十個;
而且幾乎掂邊樣爛邊樣;

現實就係咁架喇, 好正常

你公司係咩原因我無從得知, 但一般黎講最大路的 case 就係皇親國戚, 細公司固然常見, 大公司亦唔見得少, 家族式經營的上市公司尤其多. 呢類人有後台, 鍾要做乜都得. 我地呢 d 草民, 笑下算囉

clu

I must to say that I don't completely agree with you all.

1. Programmer is only for young people or you have to be under 40 to be productive.
It's not true at all, I am not 40 yet but I am much more confident of my skills than I was 10 years ago. nothing can substitute your experience and writing clean code requires a lot of skills and experience. When I say clean code I really meant it: low coupling, high cohesion and unit testable code. When you are at your 40s, you might not be as good as 20s in terms of learning new languages or new tools, however you are more capable to smelling something may go wrong and leading the team/colleagues to the right direction.

2. Programming is easy, so all the big organisations can simply outsource the job to China or India.
That is not true either, programming is not easy, and to some extents, it's really hard and it's beyond a single person's capability to build a software. You may argue, programming is simply putting a bunch of if then else and loop statements together. But the trick is where and how you combine these if then else and loop statements to make your code readable, reusable, unit testable and bug free. This part is the hardest thing in programming imho. Again you need years of experience to master this. Programmers are not like factory workers, it's nowhere near, forget about what people keeps saying: System architect design the software and programmers are just like factory works to write the code based on the design. If you are a programmer, you know this is bullshit, software is something changing every day, The source code of the software is the actual design; just like traditional engineers produce design documents, the artifact of designing software is the source code. (Refer to: http://www.developerdotstar.com/mag/articles/reeves_design.html).I doubt if there is a such product that was designed by a so-called guru and implemented by a bunch of amateurs in Indias or China (No offence either China or India developers) and it can be a successful product.  

One thing i do agree with you guys though:

Programmers are not respected as they should be, I believe we deserve more recognitions and financial rewarding in HK.

But no complaints, let's working hard and happy coding guys. :) (play harder of course)

16791679

入學好易, 要上先難

馬後砲

16791679 發表於 2012-6-11 23:22
入學好易, 要上先難

你講學，，，，，邊樣?

16791679

回應 馬後砲 #40 的帖子

入行 -_-, 打錯

馬後砲

clu 發表於 2012-6-10 15:08
I must to say that I don't completely agree with you all.

1. Programmer is only for young people or ...

I perfectly agree with you, that programing is never easy.

One scenario is
you have designed the dB structure ( just an example ),
then your customer wants to add a seemingly small report,
and your team says they cant do it without modifying the dB structure.
What a night mare!

Nor should  we underestimate the strengths of Indian or Chinese scholars.

As told the Indian language is the most difficult in the world. For someone born to learn such language, his brain is already halfway hooked up to learn our programing language.

I have had the opportunity to see the work of a few postgrads in South China Institute of Technology and they were really excellent.

So, we do have competition.